Mirror, Mirror on the Wall: A Replication Study of Student Perceptions Regarding Motivating and Inhibiting Factors in Distance Learning

Mary I Dereshiwsky

April 22, 2003, 2100 GMT

+ mary_d has arrived.
< mary_d> Test message to start online chat
< tcc_staff> hello Mary
< mary_d> Hi! Whew, glad I'm not alone! :0
< tcc_staff> I'm one of the TCC staff
< mary_d> How are you doing today? :)
< tcc_staff> fine and you?
< mary_d> Super! I sure hope we get some others to come visit with us :)
< mary_d> How's the conference going so far?
< tcc_staff> so far so good
< mary_d> Good enrollment this year I hope?
< tcc_staff> yes, the enrollment is very good
< tcc_staff> over 500 participants
< mary_d> I'm hoping that being up on the first day will attract more visitors to this chat
< mary_d> Wow, 500? That's super!
< tcc_staff> yes, its still a bit early
< tcc_staff> other should be coming soon
< mary_d> Maybe that's working against me.
< mary_d> Last year I was up on the last afternoon of the last day (sigh...)
< tcc_staff> for your info, I've logged your chat
< tcc_staff> session
< mary_d> Great! I had hoped to elicit an open-ended discussion.
< tcc_staff> do you teach many online courses?
< mary_d> Yes, I teach 4 different graduate research courses in eduation on the Web!
< mary_d> What's your experience with online teaching and learning?
< tcc_staff> great!
< tcc_staff> I work as the distance learning coordinator for our college
< tcc_staff> and I also assist faculty who will be teaching online
< mary_d> Wow! I've got a celebrity and leader with me! Awright!
< tcc_staff> oh no :)
< mary_d> What are the key issues of readiness you're finding with faculty and students?
< tcc_staff> depending on their skill level
< mary_d> What's the biggest challenge you face with newbies?
< tcc_staff> the switch to student-centered learning
< tcc_staff> and for students the initiative and independent learning
< mary_d> Ah!! Yes! Do you find resistance to this--wanting to be 'lectured at?'
+ Beverley has arrived.
< mary_d> Hi Beverley!
< mary_d> Welcome to my chat on student preceptions re online learning!
+ mikeg has arrived.
< mary_d> Hi MikeG!
< mikeg> hello
< mary_d> Welcome to my chat on student perceptions re online learning!
< mary_d> What is your experience with online teaching and learning, Beverly and Mike?
< mikeg> I do two sections of economics online each semester.
< mary_d> Wow, that must be a challenging subject to teach online : )
< mikeg> It's designed to be mostly a directed self-study.
< Beverley> I support our faculty in the development of their online courses...ID, training, and media development.
< mary_d> Is it an adjunct to classroom lectures?
< mary_d> Beverley, that's great! What's the biggest issue of readienss (or lack thereof) that you find?
< Beverley> Transitioning from teaching f2f to online...how to bring years of teaching online and be effective.
< mary_d> Oh yes, are you finding that faculty just want to transfer their lecture notes verbatim to the Web?
< Beverley> That is years of teaching f2f and move to online.
< Beverley> Yes. <smile>
< mary_d> ;)
< mary_d> And do you find that faculty are unprepared for the time commitment to teach effectively online?
+ dawn has arrived.
< mary_d> Hi Dawn! Welcome!
< Beverley> Yes. It is one of our biggest challenges...preparing faculty for what lies ahead.
< dawn> Hi Mary. You are on my PhD committee at NAU.
< mary_d> Our tech support person here says she often has to lecture faculty "Hey, the course doesn't just teach itself. You've gotta get in there and engage!
+ vinnie has arrived.
< mary_d> Ah MY Dawn! Great to SEE 'ya!
< dawn> YOu too.
< mary_d> Hi there, Vinnie! Welcome!
< mary_d> Dawn, would you like to share your own Web-based teaching and learning experiences with us?
+ Joanne has arrived.
< mary_d> Hi there, Joanne! Welcome!
< Joanne> Hi :)
< vinnie> aloha--just fiished my keynote
< dawn> I am teaching for two different colleges online right now.
< mary_d> Vinnie, congratulations!
< Beverley> Yes! Getting beyond read the lecture notes, do the homework and take the quiz.
< mary_d> Ah, a cyber-juggling act, Dawn! ;)
< dawn> They both have very different requirements.
< vinnie> our keynote--forgot my co-presnetor!
< mary_d> Nothin' like teamwork, Vinnie ;)
< mary_d> What's the biggest challenge all of you have faced in terms of newbie online learners? Inappropriate expectations, readiness issues, etc.?
< dawn> Kaplan college requires a once- a -week chat..... they call it a seminar.
< vinnie> readiness and a sense of discipline
< mary_d> Real-time chat, Dawn? Sounds like that would be hard to coordinate..!
< dawn> Students sign up for the section because the time of the seminar is convenient.
< mary_d> Any specifid readiness issues, Vinnie?
< mary_d> Oops, specific!
< dawn> They know what they are doing when they register for the course.
- vinnie just left.
< mary_d> You are lucky, Dawn! In what ways are they prepared for online learning? What skills?
< Beverley> Student perception that online courses equates to wait until mid- or end of semester to access for the first and try to complete all work in one week.
< mary_d> Yup, yup, can relate (sigh...)
< dawn> Well they seem ready for the online. This is my first term teaching for Kaplan.
< mary_d> What strategies have you used to keep them *continually engaged?*
< dawn> But I like it.
< mary_d> Dawn, Kaplan must be doing something very right in terms of student expectations.
< dawn> I prepare material before the chat and keep them talking about what the chat is supposed to cover.
< dawn> Yes, I think so.
< mary_d> Dawn, do you give them the topic of the chat beforehand?
< dawn> They know that they must participate.
< mary_d> Sounds like you build in participation into the grading requirements.
< dawn> The course is outlined for all the instructors.
< dawn> So they all discuss the same things in the chat.
< mikeg> Dawn, are these undergrads? What subject?
< mary_d> How do you deal with the shy ones? who won't speak up in chat? or is that not a problem?
< dawn> I teach college algebra, all the instructors cover the same sections in week one.
< dawn> I am not really sure yet,,, I am real new to the college.
< dawn> Next time I see you I will tell you.
< mary_d> Sounds to me like you are having a great experience in Kaplan so far!
< dawn> Most students speak up.
< mary_d> What about the other place you teach online? Any such problems with student engagement?
< dawn> Many at Cochise.
< mary_d> What do you do? How do you follow up and encourage continual engagement?
< dawn> It is like pulling teeth to get them to post to the forums.
< mary_d> Mmmm-hmmmm (sigh...)
< dawn> Email reminders, announcements.
< Beverley> Are students hindered in live chats due to lack of typing skills or grammar/English skills?
< dawn> 10% of their grade but many don't care.
< dawn> Beverly,
< mary_d> It would seem to me that writing skills might be improved or enhanced.
< dawn> that is a good question.
< mary_d> I have a foreign-born student who is taking my graduate research course online.
< mary_d> We work in groups so he has been able to participate to his own comfort level in that way.
< dawn> I have many ESL students in my Cochise course.... the college is on the US/Mexico boarder.
< dawn> border (:)
< mikeg> It's a marginal benefit/marginal cost world. If the student only needs a "C" he or she will blow-off a time consuming component only worth 10% of his or her grade.
< mary_d> Yup, and I wonder if sometimes the very expectation of online is the 'blow-off.'
+ Bob has arrived.
< mary_d> Let me blow off all the assignments in a weekend's worth?
< mary_d> Hi there, Bob! Welcome!
< Bob> Hello
< dawn> Yes mikg
< dawn> I think that might be so.
< mary_d> Do you all think maybe the notion of online community building is over-rated?
< mary_d> Maybe students don't need or want it--would prefer to send off X assignments individually at own pace?
< dawn> I think that if the whole curriculum expects it, that it works.
< dawn> Students expect that they will be interacting then.
< Beverley> Perhaps depends on discipline?
< mary_d> How do you mean, Beverley?
< mikeg> I agree it depends on the discipline and the program
< Beverley> More technical, less community. More philosophical, more dialog.
< mary_d> Discipline--as in self-discipline? or as in 'external sanctions?'
< mikeg> I think that a graduate student is looking for something very different from his or her education than an undergrad.
< mary_d> Good point, Mike. Do you think the online environment is facilitative of graduate study and meeting their needs?
+ JHS has arrived.
< mary_d> Hi there, JHS!
< mikeg> I know that an online component to my graduate study would have been helpful.
< JHS> Aloha....just testing CHAT mode
< mary_d> You're always welcome, JHS!@
< mary_d> Mike, how so? Would it have helped you develop some effective learning skills?
< mikeg> The undergrad that's looking for a "passcard" to a job doesn't care much about building community.
< dawn> That is true about the discipline... I have my students do one group assignment in a math class and you would think I was asking them to write a 20 page paper.
< mary_d> So true: gimme the credit and I'm outta here.
< dawn> They don't expect it in a math course.
< mary_d> LOL Dawn, I've heard the same thing here: yikes a FIVE-PAGE paper! Omigosh!!!!
< dawn> They have to write a 2 page paper! :)
< dawn> In a group of four.
< mary_d> Aaaaiiieeeee, panic, panic, Dawn! ;)
< mary_d> This makes me wonder if the online environment is not for everyone--and if not, how do we help students make better self-selection decisions?
< JHS> E-School/Hawaii has a standard(?) pre-activity survey to help students decide if they should join.
< mikeg> It starts with advisement.
< dawn> Do you find that many students perceive online courses as 'self-paced' and independent learning?
< mary_d> Have such pre-advisement and screening instruments been successful?
< mary_d> Dawn, good question, here's what I found (interesting dichotomy):
< mary_d> On the one hand "I want to take an online course to get out of going to a live and in person class"
< mary_d> (hidden assumption): online is LESS work!
< mary_d> but on the other hand:
< dawn> Right
< mary_d> Soon I hear "I miss the live face-to-face interaction!"
< mary_d> So: what's the answer? They want it ALL and that is just NOT possible...!!
< dawn> They end up finding that online is more work
< mikeg> Don't market online education as if all is possible.
< mary_d> Yes, this is what all the research shows: MORE work!
< mary_d> Mike, so true, we have the same problem with summer school here in No. AZ...
< mary_d> marketed as 'fun in the cool pines' and then students actually act surprised that summer courses involve...work...study...tests!
< Beverley> Do you offer all online courses in a f2f format also? So that students can choose the delivery method that works best for them?
< mary_d> Yes, for the basic intro to research we do, Beverley, BUT...
< mary_d> I find that the live f2f sections don't fill. Everyone wants the online.
< dawn> NAU has well trained professors.
< dawn> I have taken 10+ course online there.
< mary_d> Well, I'm biased (wink..!) but I think so, Dawn!
< mikeg> I need to go. Thanks all.
< mary_d> Even so, though, some of our faculty are being pressured into teaching online even when it is not the best fit!
< mary_d> Bye, Mike!
- mikeg just left.
< dawn> That is not good.
< mary_d> Are there any problems with this current attitude re online, 'flavor of the month' and everyone being pressured to jump on the bandwagon?
< JHS> Thanks for interesting discussion....gotta head to f-t-f meeting.
< mary_d> Bye JHS! :)
- JHS just left.
- Joanne just left.
< mary_d> I wonder sometimes if students are sufficiently insightful into their learning style.
< dawn> I don't think that most are.
< mary_d> Classic question on screening instrument for online:
< dawn> Until they mature as a learner.
< mary_d> Rate: I am self-motivated as a learner.
< Beverley> Mary, how are those faculty (pressured into online) handling the transition? Feedback from them and from the students? Quality?
< mary_d> Is anyone going to check 'no"?
< mary_d> Beverley, good question...I think it is 'psychic pressure' from one's dept. chair and dean and other supervisors.
< mary_d> Get on the bandwagon, get more of our dept's courses online, etc.
< mary_d> And then those faculty are left to flounder, Beverley. With little prep or support it seems to be a set-up for failure.
< mary_d> I know some very 'social animals' who are reluctantly jumping into online and I can sadly predict they are going to find it 'cold and impersonal'.
< Beverley> Faculty here are experiencing similar, and are resistant. Makes it much more difficult to prepare and support them.
< mary_d> Yes, that is unfortunate, Beverley. Why not give everyone a good orientation just for info purposes but then let natural selection take over?
< dawn> Just like online is not right for every student.
< mary_d> That's so true, Dawn. The saddest thing though is when students realize it's not for them but 'choose to stay unhappy' and remain in the online class.
< Beverley> I guess some of it is financial pressure...more online offerings to attract more students?
< mary_d> Yes, definitely! Think of it from administration's angle: more pure profit.
< mary_d> Don't have to rent classroom or pay per diem for faculty travel to distant sites.
< dawn> And they allow students to enroll a week or two after the class starts to increase funds.
< dawn> Which is very bad in an online course.
< mary_d> Oh yes, Dawn, excellent point: then the student is feeling even more behind and overwhelmed.
< dawn> The first week is when most get used to the platform etc.
< mary_d> And the temptation is great to zip through the material too quickly.
< Beverley> Uh oh. You hit a nerve, Dawn. That is a major support issue for us.
< mary_d> I always set aside the whole first week for startup and orientation activities.
< mary_d> Beverly, uh-oh, sounds like you have experienced this first hand!
< Beverley> Every semester. Sort of like the movie Groundhog Day :)
< mary_d> LOL!!!
< mary_d> So it's not improving?
< dawn> You know that that student who starts a week late is more likely to fail
< dawn> They never get caught up
< mary_d> Yes, feel overwhelmed and find it hard to catch up.
< mary_d> Would a good orientation to online learning seminar help in this regard?
< mary_d> Some things the student should expect in the online classroom?
< Beverley> Yes, the students are often traumatized and we spend a great deal of time reassuring and bringing them up to speed on any technical/CMS issues.
< dawn> Maybe, but I think that the policy needs to change. You only register up until the official start of an online course.
< mary_d> Beverley, is tech navigation the big thing? or are there other deficiencies you find that you need to work with them on?
< mary_d> Dawn, I'm a meanie: I don't let them stay in unless they check in during that first week and complete several startup activities!
< dawn> Good idea
< mary_d> I've found it works because they realize the importance of continual engagement much like in the f2f class where you have to 'show up.
< Beverley> Not real complicated things, like usernames, logging in, basic navigation.
< mary_d> What about software, Beverley? Do they know how to word process, copy and paste text, things of that nature?
< Beverley> But, because they are already behind they feel overwhelmed.
< mary_d> Yes, I think there is a natural panic associated with the technology.
< Beverley> Our students have varied technical skills. Most have only very basic WP and cut/paste abilities.
< mary_d> I would think those would be important skills for participating in asynchronous postings.
- Bob just left.
< dawn> Where are you Beverly? What school?
< Beverley> University of Houston - Victoria (TX)
< mary_d> How neat! Houston is a fun city :)
< mary_d> Where is Victoria relative to Houston?
< Beverley> We service a largely rural area (15 counties) and most students are older, working, families, etc.
< Beverley> About 100 miles south.
< dawn> So you are near the Gulf?
< mary_d> Do you find any special stresses relative to the computer and the technology with that older working student population?
< Beverley> About 30 miles from the bay.
< dawn> Many older students can get help with the technology from their kids :):)
< mary_d> Oh yes, good point, Dawn--the kids have much to teach the adults in terms of forgetting the fear and joyfully jumping in!
< Beverley> Mary, indeed. Not savvy computer users, so deal with fear of clicking the wrong button, etc.
< mary_d> Exactly! No worries re: "will the hard drive blow up if I push this button?"
< mary_d> Just push the button and see what happens! And seldom is it that catastrophic!
< dawn> :)
< Beverley> It is most evident in our School of Education. Students training to be teachers who have never used a computer.
< dawn> My son does things on the computer that just seem to come natural to him.
< mary_d> It's interesting to me that the technology wasn't the big issue with my study sample. Instead, it was interpersonal needs.
< mary_d> Teachers should ideally be leading the way re: computer use and modeling how it can be a positive tool.
< dawn> Beverly that is amazing in this day and age.
< mary_d> Then again with chronic under-funding in schools and old equipment, software, etc. you wonder how they can!
< Beverley> Yes, it amazes me everyday.
< mary_d> Maybe a general resistance to change, do you think?
< dawn> I live in a very rural area and we have DSL.
< dawn> Yes that is a big thing.
< mary_d> Dawn, you won't believe this: no DSL for Earthlink in Flagstaff!
< dawn> Nor here. I have frontiernet.
< dawn> I use earthlink when I travel.... dial in only
< mary_d> Ah, sounds like a better provider! Dialup is so risky. Miracle I haven't been punted!
< Beverley> Very few of our students are on DSL. Most are on dialup. About 70%
< dawn> Dial up is so unreliable.
< mary_d> This is the thing with our rural AZ online students too, Beverley, and add to it unreliable power connections.
< mary_d> For sure, Dawn. I get so tired of those punts!
< Beverley> Any quick tips on motivating students?
< dawn> Great talking to you MaryD. I will visit you next time I come to Tucson. My advisor is Gary Tucker.
< mary_d> Give Gary my best, Dawn!
< dawn> I need to go. :)
< dawn> bye
< mary_d> Beverley, yes, one tip...
- dawn just left.
< mary_d> Set a great example with your own active engagement and enthusiasm in your online course!
< mary_d> I check in twice a day, learn names and nicknames, welcome each student to the course, etc. They seem pleasantly surprised at the personal touch!
< Beverley> Great tip! Thanks for the discussion.
< mary_d> Thanks to you too Beverley! Good luck with your cyber-adventures!
< Beverley> Bye
< mary_d> And a great con't. conference to one and all! :)
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< tcc_staff> great chat!
< mary_d> Thank you so much and my best to our TCC colleagues for a super conference!
< tcc_staff> you're welcome!
< tcc_staff> Enjoy the rest of the conference
< mary_d> Wow, thank you so much: glad you could be with me! Have a super conference too! :)
< mary_d> Bye! :)
- mary_d just left.

TCC 2003 Online Conference
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